[flex90]

Yo boys

im making this thread to discuss/ find out if there are and kickstarts that are good out there that wont make ones hair shed off lol.

due to my bad Tbol experience i am left with a Test E only which isnt the worst thing, but im just curious for future cycles, or to end my present cycle; if there is a roid that is fast acting that is known to be the safest for the hair...

Dbol is supposed to be bad for the hair... plus the massive amount of water turns me off royally.

Winstrol is TERRIBLE for the hairline

Is Anadrol bad on the hairline aswell?


and wondering if Test Prop (since it is fast acting), can it be used as a kickstart?

Off topic (kinda).... what about prosteroids like M1T and Superdrol.. i have read many people kickctarting cycles with that stuff. what u guys have to say bout it?

[jaydee]

why dont u just front load the test thats what ill be doin when i start my next cycle

[Mike516882]

[Nowler]

Your health is your wealth: Go with a frontload of test instead of d-bol.

D-bol is crap, you will lose all the gains from it anyway, the gains you will have at the end of the cycle will solely be from the test, maybe a lil bit from the d-bol but the liver toxicity is NOT worth it, even with the milk thistle.

Anyway you dont need milk thistle, Dhea is the way to go, 25mg in the am and 25mg in the pm.

[Mike516882]

[jstrong]

Yeah but anybody with common sense knows that Arnold never EVER used a dbol only cycle with which I think is the dumbest thing you can ever do as far as gear goes. You can look it up all the stuff Arny used in his cycles and dbol was just one of them. I'd rather use tbol I may gain less but after the cycle is done I bet I keep what I put on with tbol versus losing most of the dbol gains.

[Mike516882]

[Nowler]

[jstrong]

Okay I understand then Mike I really thought for a second you were defending dbol for all the wrong reasons. I hate arguing on here so I don't want to sound like I'm being an ass to anybody but the more research I've done about gear, what is the one steroid that is the most popular amongst newbies and people who want to get big fast?

[Mike516882]

[Nowler]

I put this question to a mate on another board who happens to be a russian docter and fellow steroid user who has A LOT of knowledge.

His reply:

russian bodybuilders long time back in 80s used to feed dbol to thier dog. I had german sheppard bitch
so I gave her 10 tabs per day. I think that was 5 mg tabs. And no any visible result at all in 2 months, so I stopped it.

In 60s dbol was considered as sensational drug and was used to treat any disease in both genders. I remember fantastic reports describing how it was effective. But later official opinion was established that side effects does not worth those results.

''dbol is very weak steroid''

with myottophic activity index 0.60 compare to oxymethalone, steroid with similar side effects (estrogens. water retention) so myottophic activity index of oxymethalone 3.20.

if I will be looking for some water retention I would opt for oxymethalone of course.

Initially idea about stacking different steroids was motivated to boost up the sales, at present scenario when we have insulin and GH, there is no need in stacking different steroids at all.

I cant figure out what dbol with myotrophic activity index 0.60 can add to deca for example, deca myotrophic activity index 4.92.

I never seen any sane justification for stacking, generally it is like if one steroid did not work, than use 2-3 and that will be fine. Withs same success you can add lantus. Lantus can give good increase in muscle mass in 3-4 months even without any steroids.

so just don't believe anything

[Nowler]

Ok im gonna back off a little with my no d-bol statements!!

I have gotten the opinion's of some very seasoned guys and i have seen their point of views and im willing to lay off a little.

I still dont think people need d-bol for there first cycle though, maybe their 2nd??

Here are some of the comments from them:

'' Dbol is also good at minimizing cortisol, which sets the stage for anabolism.

The only real downside i think i have noticed from dbol was the occassional lower back pumps that were very uncomfortable after a while.

For quick size and strength it is a top contender, that's for sure. ''




''Im not 100% on the scientific details but speaking from experience I have only ever done a couple of cycles with dbol and I must say the short term results were good. That said, its all down to what gains you keep post cycle which will be shite if your training, diet and PCT isnt in order. ''




'' dbol is anabolic allright, but it's anabolic to CREATINE SYNTHESIS not PROTEIN SYNTHESIS. ''




''dbols bad rep for bloating was established pre AI's. ''




'' All things being equal, i believe you can grow on any compound whether it's bulking or cutting, they really just assist what you are already doing, whether your doing it right or wrong is the problem at hand. ''


'' like stated above, a lot of noobs use dbol, have a crap diet, blow up, stop working out, lose their "gains" and blame the dbol. ''



'' I've had good results from dbol in the past, employed in different ways. There's the traditional 40-50mg spaced out over the 24 hr. period. There's the big dose pre-workout. And there's the small dose either pre-workout and/or upon waking and at bedtime for cortisol reduction. I've used the latter to very good effect while dieting, without the water retention that dbol is notorious for. The pre-workout dose is also reported by many to offer reduced side effects.

That said, is dbol overrated? Perhaps. It depends, really.

I think of every AAS as a tool to be used for the correct purpose. I feel that dbol is too estrogenic to be used in heavy doses for my body chemistry, so it's primarily a cortisol reduction tool for me, when I use it - AM/PM and pre-WO.

I think Max makes a great point about its weak rating on the myotrophic index, because while it does have a decent anabolic effect, it's not the best drug for solid, keepable gains. I like it better than Test, though. And certain AAS work through different chemical pathways, some of which we don't fully understand yet. So I definitely still see a use for stacking AAS, even in the day of insulin and growth peptides. The ultimate cycle is an intelligent mix of all these elements, designed for a specific purpose, and tailored for the individual's unique body chemistry.

I say use it if it works for you, and scrap it if it doesn't. ''




'' Dbol is still my favorite oral steroid. I ran a few dbol only cycles back in the day and gained good quality lean mass. Dbol at 50mgs per day has given me more strength and size than a stack of test and deca ever has. I'm not as concerned about which steroid is more anabolic or more androgenic or why it's this or that...if you take dbol and eat/train right, you will get bigger and stronger in record time.

I think my first dbol only cycle was 30mgs/day for 100 days. Loved it!

Even androl a1 100mgs/day does nothing in comparison to 50mgs/day of dbol for me. Now i have never run a Deca only cycle to compare, but at 50mgs/day of Deca i'm no so sure i would get even close to the same results that i have obtained from Dbol, but i can't prove this because i have not done it yet. ''


'' I've not a lot of experience with it, using it for a mass phase that I'm on. I did not see the immediate results I've heard so much about with it, so have no opinion as of yet. I've only been in the 20-30mg range, but have seen some water retention and puffiness on 30mg that I attribute to dbol. Maybe more will be evident post-cycle, and during the decomp.

Personally, I thought I saw better strength gains with tren, which I happen to love. I saw them almost immediately on a test/tren/winny cycle. ''



I am not one that will never admit when im wrong, i will always give fact the right of way b4 my ego.
So what im saying it that my original statments might not be so right, but not wong either.

D-bol seems to be an individual thing, in order to see if it is for you then one must try it!!
I still say all first 10-12 week bulk cycles should be a test 500mg only cycle.

Second should be the same with MAYBE some d-bol to see if it work well for you.

Third bulk 750mg test, with d-bol (if it worked well for you) or another oral if you like.

Forth bulk 500mg of test, 200mg deca, maybe an oral if you want

Some people like to run winny with all of their cycles.

Definitly the first cycle should be a test alone cycle, and be sure not to use deca untill 3rd-4th cycle, no point wasting your secret weapon by being a newbie now is there!!

[Nowler]

Here are some more opinons on the d-bol debate:


''I think it certainly should be considered as a decent ergogenic, as well as a cortisol suppressor. This is actually how I've used it successfully in the past. And I think we can all agree that it shouldn't be relied on as a primary anabolic.

Good thoughts here.

I would suggest using 10mg AM, pre-workout, and/or at bedtime as an ergogenic and cortisol controlling agent.

I like it particularly when dieting, as cortisol is rarely an issue when insulin is high. ''



''I like the idea of cortisol controll during a diet, personally I find D-bol highly anabolic or rather highly anti catabolic, being very highly strung and hyperactive by nature it a huge help to me. ''

[Mike516882]

I always wondered why u hated dbol... Thanks for the great advice and info once again nowler!

Mike

[Nowler]

[wargaz]

Wow great post bravo! Good info !