[YAMAHAROB]

would like to hit 250lbs and stay there but look reasonably lean....obviously my first cycle is likely to be the best one..looking into sust,deca...not sure if i wanna throw in d.bol/anadrol...i wanna avoid bloat and bulking to quickley, dont wanna make too obvious!! what else could be woth throwing in the mix to make my first cycle effective....i think winnie might be best left till later...any thoughts?

[JackSquat]

What do you weigh now? How much you need to gain to hit 250 makes a difference in what you might want to take. If you're looking for like 25lbs then ya, go with deca and test. If you only need to gain 15 or so then go with EQ, gains will be less but will be harder.

Why you thinking about sust though? Not worth the effort IMO and just convoludes your first cycle... just stick to something like test e or c. If you want to kick it off and don't want to bloat on an oral, you could poke t prop. Again, depending on how much you're hoping to gain you may not even neet the kick start.

Winny? Save it for contest prep. Do solid PCT and you'll keep solid gains. If you're running 12 or more weeks then consider HCG, otherwise plan on clomid pc and keep some anti-e around for gyno or major water.

Good luck bro!
JS

[YAMAHAROB]

cheers bro thats exactly the sort of info that is gonna help me out, i appreciate it....im 220lbs (16 stone) now, 6ft 4 been working out for 3 years now with success in both mass/strength, been hard at it for the last 6 months, diet is really clean for bulking...would like to end up no heavier than 250 lean...i suppose more quality gains is what im after ie. 15lbs or so is plenty good enougth..dont wanna tax my liver with orals, im ready to step up and push myself with a little help.....so you think avoiding the sust first off is a good move? perhaps keeping the deca as a base and stacking it with something else? was looking into tren alone, but im not sure how available its gonna be to me and sides are likely to be higher, plus more jabs!!!
cheers...

[YAMAHAROB]

having had a look into eq i think it could be something that will benefit me whilst starting out, its not overly expensive, relatively safe with low sides...and not too noticable, which is certainly something will concern me...with work etc. i cant really be seen to explode in size within a 12 week period..too obvious?plus it would give me a chance to see how my body/mind adjusts...i would prefer quality gains over mass/bloat anyday...whta precautions might one take as pct....assuming these gains are easier to keep? nolva just in case, but is clomid a nessicary?
is this a good idea if my goal is to increase in lean muscle with not too much weight? or do i need the test?

[JackSquat]

Hey bro... you'll definitely want to run test as the base of your cycle, then stack something else on that, like EQ. So run something like 500/400, test/EQ. I'd just go with test-e instead of sust. Sust needs to be poked eod at least to get the most bang for your buck. Not the biggest deal, but there just isn't much benfit for all the trouble. Running test/eq you could just split those into two shots per week, 1cc of each in each pin.

Tren would be an option, the gains would be clean, but maybe more than you're after in one cycle. You'd HAVE to run test with that also though bro or you'd be limp for sure. And, like you said, you'd be back to poking alot, just like with the sust.

On the Winny, I think actually you were on the right track with that to clean up after a deca cycle. EQ gains will be cleaner so you shouldn't need anything to harden up. Another option would have been running some var near the end of the cycle instead of winny. Winny will dry you out bro, so cool pre-contest but otherwise you risk some unneeded joint pain.

For PCT, if you're going to run 12 weeks, which would be perfect on long esters like test-e and eq, you might think about snagging 10,000 ius of HCG to run after your last poke. Spread that over ten days or so to reinflate the nuts, then follow that up with either Nolva or Clomid. I run 3 weeks of Clomid and keep Nolva or a-dex around for bloat or gyno.

I think that covers it bro. Later,
JS

[YAMAHAROB]

sound....how about an eq alone cycle...i have spoken to a friend who has just done one and he likes it alot..gains are modest but still effective and alot safer and less noticible than stacking something with test..think i could leave that till another cycle later.....seeing as is my first im more concerned with how its gonna hit me..both mentally and physically...

your obviously experienced im looking for a little input......has anyone got any opinions on a eq alone cycle...
( quality, modest gains are my aim first off, maybe 15lbs or so..this would look good on my frame )

[Nowler]

gone over this shit a million times. I think GnB said it best with the first cycle you want to be the best cycle stack at least deca test and dbol or fina. since its going to hit you to full effect the first time you take it, you should be able to gain 25 - 30lbs.

[Nowler]

i think you should talk to mant01 he is on his first cycle and stacking the 400mg of deca 500 mg of test and took dbols for the first 3 - 5 weeks.. I believe... I could be wrong about his cycle but im pretty sure he is on a standard bulking cycle of test deca and dbol, you should see how his progress is.

[YAMAHAROB]

i can appreciate that mate i will give him a shout but like i said 30lbs in 12wks or less is too much...im looking to bulk up steadily with thicker muscle, im not far from my ideal weight and i don't wanna get there that quickly...i would rather slow the process down and experience better gains than just bulk or bloat.....i know your trying to help but i think my aim is slightly diferent than mants....he 's big already and wants to be bigger but im more into a leaner bulk...that physique would be better for me as i wanna stay flexible and fit...too much bulk is gonna slow me down....i appreciate your help though bro!! dont get me wrong....
so any thoughts on a leaner bulk cycle???

[JackSquat]

I personally haven't done, or know anyone that has done EQ by itself. Most dudes, including me, are gonna rag on you about running test as the base of your cycle though bro.

But, given your goals, there's no reason you couldn't do it. Your gains in mass aren't going to be stagering for sure but what you do gain will be hard and lean, and hard gains are easier to hang on to. Would be similar to var but cheaper. Plus, if you're buddy ran it with the results you're after, there you go.

There would also be some prohormone alternatives since you're not after major mass.

[YAMAHAROB]

the problem with my friend was that he ran it as a second cycle after fuckin around during his first, he looks lean however he is a little shorter than me and the gains he recieved look good on his frame...im taller at 6ft4 and want to notice those lean gains but am not expecting miracles...like i said im more concerned with seeing how i react with my first cycle, i think im gonna go purchase enougth equipoise to be able to cycle it at 400mg/wk and perhaps frontload at 600mg/wk for the first 2 weeks....the cycle will last 12 weeks,gonna use nolva as pct as im not sure if clomid is nessisary...obviously nolva is on hand just in case.....i think next time around i would like to stack it with some test.e for better gains, once i know how my body is gonna react to this compound alone....
im a little worried as to whether stacking two, will elicite stupid gains on my first cycle.....i wanna clean bulk first.....is it worth a try????
im appreciating your help bro seriously.....

p.s. money might be an issue this x-mas which maybe part of why im hesitant to stack the test...wouldn't wanna spend more than £200 or $400 ish on my first cycle....

[nasdstang]

[Nowler]

umm i dont see anything wrong with running test as a base... test is the base of every cycle.... am i mistaken?

[JackSquat]

Christ guys... I didn't mean ragging on him FOR doing it. I meant ragging on him TO do it... i.e. "Dude, you need to run test as a base!" That sort of thing.

I'll try to articulate myself a little more clearly.

[YAMAHAROB]

so test is a must in your opinions???? what would be better test.e or mixing it with sust? remember i dont wanna blow up too quickly..im after leaner gains....wont i suffer from water retention mixing it with test.....or will adding a little nolva during the cycle eliminate this problem!!!

[Nowler]

Dude dont worry about the water retention it falls right off when your done with the cycle and yeah nolva with help with it but just run it after the cycle.. I mean unless you want to run it the whole time i guess people do that too...

Sustanon is 4 blends of test.. Why dont you just stick to sust for your first cycle and mix it with some deca.. just remember that you might want to take fina or dianabol for the first 3 - 5 weeks because depending on your body its going to take 3 - 5 weeks for the sustanon and deca to even effect you. If you want to gain the whole time run the fina and the dbol in the beginning.. Water retention is nothing trust me you lose it everytime after a cycle. Might lose about 5 - 6 lbs though after your cycle due to the water retention though.

[YAMAHAROB]

ok...think im coming around to the idea that test is a must really and might be of some use to me...think im gonna try stick with eq depending on whether its availability..sust aint a problem...yeh like you said maybe i need something to kickstart gain.....

sust and eq at 400-500mg a week in two shots mon and thurs....can i mix these shots like you would deca???

plus is nolva alone gonna be sufficient as pct?

[mant01]

When do you think that you may start your cycle mate. I'm sure you'll feel great once you get into it.

[Nowler]

That looks cool to me mixing the test with the sust and taking nolva in the end.. You may even want to take a couple shots of HCG in the beginning of your PCT too, I love that shit. Nasdstang had a pretty good first cycle and he didnt use alot of juice maybe he has advice for you.. He is an ecto and stayed pretty lean too.

[YAMAHAROB]

i thinking sbout starting it maybe start of the new year...i figure this would be a good time so i can monitor my progress throughout 07.......im gonna hit the gym hard up until the end of the year...at least xmas wont get in the way of my cycle......im gonna have a word with a mate and get a price and will let you know whats on...im pretty sure this is gonna happen now...im up for it...i can set myself a goal for the new year!!!

il giv nas a shout...

[YAMAHAROB]

right so this is how im looking to run my first cycle after chatting to a few guys...i think the gains i recieve from this are the sort im after.....

cycle: - x2 shots a week mixing compounds
weeks 1-10 eq @ 400mg/wk = 4000mg
weeks 1-10 test.e @ 400mg/wk = 4000mg

pct: - beginning 2 weeks after last jab
clomid ( 30 tabs )
Days 1 - 3, 300mg
Days 4 - 6, 150mg
Days 7 - 21, 50mg

gonna have nolva ( 20 tabs ) on hand just in case...

how does this look......il purchase my nolva now...then the cycle then depending on price the clomid perhaps a week or 2 into the cycle...

hoping to gain approx 15 solid lbs...or as lean as i can make em...

[tom1991]

I just read up there that EQ make's you're nuts shrink? what is the gear that helps them recover?

Can I also ask is a test E/Eq with nolva an ok stack for 3rd ever cycle if training for mass and muslce size. will I get any good gain's from that?

I am 5.11 and about 195lbs

My previous cycle's were

sptember 06 - 4 week dbol

march - june 07 - dbol/test e and nolva (on this now)


cheers

[yamaharobj]

your pct will sort your little men out.....hcg is your best bet if you have had real probs in the past or are worried.....if this is your third then you could be more adventurous...test,eq,winnie and some t-bol to kick start...with nolva,clomid,hcg to follow will be a good lean mass cycle....

i will do it this way next time i reckon

t-bol @ 30mg ED wk 1-4
test ( opt for prop or cyp ) @ 400mg/wk 1-12
eq @ 400mg/wk 1-12
winnie @ 50mg ED wk 8-12

with all the usual to follow two weeks after the last ester jab.......

thats my two cents, there are more experienced guys around who can help......but this MAY be my second cycle.....

[tom1991]

I was just reading spotinjection's again

Does any of you guy's ever limit the amount of gear you put into each site?

It say's 3 cc for glutes, 2 cc for quads and 1.5 cc for everywhere else.

if I had to take 500mg test e/400mg eq per week. How would I take that?

would 250mg test e and 200mg eq in the same needle be ok? thats a lot of juice in one shot isnt it?

thanks.

[MarkyM]